You think a driver is faster because he is more daring? That is nonsense. A driver is faster because of his ability to judge where to find grip, judge when to brake, carry speed through a corner by balancing the car etc etc. Speed comes from ability and skill not daring. Once you have decided to take the risk of getting in a car risk ceases to exist as any kind of limiting device. The top drivers are not faster because they are braver than the others they are faster because they have more ability. Watch racing at any level and you will find drivers taking ridiculous risks and going nowhere.

You should read what Martin Brundle said about Senna in a wet F3 race at Silvertsone. At Stowe on the first lap Senna knew sailed down the outside and passed all the cars in front of him on a line that should have been slow. The race was stopped due an accident elsewhere and the rain got heavier. At the re-start Brundle decided to try the Senna line and hit a huge puddle and nearly went off. He fought back through the field and on the podium he said to Senna that he had tried his line and nearly went off and Senna told him that he had not tried it after the second start because it was too wet. How did he know? Two drivers both equally daring but with entirely different results because daring has nothing to do with it. Judgment and ability meant one gained from the move and the other lost.

Sorry about the typos.

I understand an additional 10 Kilos of fuel adds 0.3 secs per lap at a place like Jerez.

I don’t think there’s a question of ‘if’ the Ferrari engine is higher on fuel consumption vis-a-vis the Renault engine…the question is how much more fuel will Ferri have to carry v Red Bulls. Remember, the minimum weight increase is NET OF FUEL (i.e., theminimum has been raised with tanks being empty, fyi).

God this sounds like a post on the B.M.A site,,but it’s something I know about very well,having had problems in this department myself,,but that’s another story.

The point I am trying to make is that,we are all different when confronted by decision making situations when confronting danger..

To use Alonso’s amazing high speed overtaking of Schuey on the outside of a bend…Why was it amazing? because it was dangerous,and rare..it was exhilarating.
And to him,as cool as a cucumber,sat in his car,said to himself “I can do this”

And this separates racing drivers and those that drive racing cars.

If we were to obliterate the risk factor in racing,,why make them so fast? just have them racing around at 30mph,or remote control cars..

I cannot go along with your thought module,as per your check list prior to driving.
And it is a shame that maybe you weren’t just a bit more daredevil,with the opportunity you had racing,,you may have been faster and noticed..

I hate bullfighting,but it was the risk takers and bravest matador’s that made a name for themselves.

The skill of the engineers and the drivers is the same regardless of the consequences of it going wrong. Football is probably the most popular sport in the world but the risk of anyone being fatally injured is almost insignificant. I watch racing for the racing. It would make no difference to my enjoyment of the skills of the drivers if the worst that could happen to them was get a custard pie in the face. The skill is exactly the same and the same guys would win regardless of potential consequences.

“Hell,as soon as you walk out of your house,there’s a risk factor.but we don’t spend time thinking about what situations we could die.”

And as you were growing up all of those were explained to you and you were trained by your parents to avoid risk. While racing now is way safer than it used to be the risk of serious injury while doing it is orders of magnitude higher than normal lide and therefore you have to assess the risk in the same way that any hazardous industrial process has to have a risk assessment. For me to drive to my limit my brain has to be clear and I would rather assess risk etc before I got in the car than have it pop into my head while I am driving or having an accident. I would hate for the risks to occur to me after an accident.

The awareness that you are putting your life at risk starts with donning your helmet,then stepping into a car with extra safety provision for fast speed accidents.

I know when I put my helmet on,I was just excited by the enjoyment I was going to have.
Not analyzing the danger I was allowing myself to endure.
obviously if I thought the car or myself were not up to the task,I would not have committed myself.

As per Jackie Stewart’s remark is absolutely correct..” If you are not capable of considering those outcomes don’t go on a track”…
If I considered my chances of dying were greater than my chances of having fun…then I wouldn’t do it…takes a fraction of a second to think about it.

And yes the chances of dying were realistic,but I wasn’t prepared to think about it.I think It’s healthy to live on the edge sometimes,if only to remind us we are alive.

Hell,as soon as you walk out of your house,there’s a risk factor.but we don’t spend time thinking about what situations we could die.

I really don’t get your logic. I raced, I had accidents and I coped perfectly well because instead of treating it like some kind of roller coaster thrill ride I stayed calm and dealt with the problem. What is wrong with that? Do you seriously believe that is not how racing drivers think? Anyone who is anything other than calm in that situation has less chance of sorting it out.

“Getting into any car and working out the risk factor,is something nobody should do,It’s something we take for granted.”

The logic of that is also beyond me. You have to look at what could possibly happen then decide if you are prepared to take the risk. Jackie Stewart summed it up perfectly. Dying in an accident is not a big deal because you are so busy trying to regain control that you would not have time to think about the consequences but you have to consider whether you are prepared to have your brains scrambled or to end up paraplegic or quadraplegic. If you are not capable of considering those outcomes don’t go on a track.

“It wasn’t till later that it dawned on me the consequences if it had all gone wrong.”

That stuns me. You must know people have died and been seriously injured in accidents at those kind of speeds before so why do you need to have the accident before you realise the risks?

Anyone know the answer?

Podcast team, perhaps?

But at the same time you have to understand that there are people that do get the rush,we wouldn’t have any racing drivers otherwise.
And as Marty said,,a disaster these days,thanks to the safety of the cars,is a failure to finish.

You just can’t have F1 or many other sports without the risk factor,and if they thought like you,these racing drivers would be working in offices and factorys,playing it safe.

I am envious that you had the opportunity and money to race,It’s something I would love to do,but alas will never do,
Getting into any car and working out the risk factor,is something nobody should do,It’s something we take for granted.

My closest call was a Tyre blowout at 110mph,on the bowl,,fortunately the car handled incredibly and I managed to save the car.It wasn’t till later that it dawned on me the consequences if it had all gone wrong.

But at the time and shortly after I felt a massive rush,which I wouldn’t deter from doing again..madness maybe,perhaps my life is so boring I need that injection of drama..Maybe that’s why Schuey is back

My point is simply that the risk to drivers does not add to the sport. Others clearly disagree with that so you have to question what it is they are looking for if not a serious accident.

“Roy …you gotta change the company you mix with,I can’t believe that for one moment,there’s far too few accidents in F1 these day’s,paying the entry fee would be madness,when it costs a few quid to go and see banger racing.”

Did I say they went to F1? I am talking about people who watch F1 on TV and go out to their local track. Mainly these are people I have met through work.

“You knew that it was one of the more dangerous tests,and the adrenalin rush was amazing,It allows you to understand these racing drivers,because you just wanted to go faster and faster.even slowing down to 100 felt like you were at walking pace.

One false move and you were brown bread,but that didn’t bother you,,because the adrenalin kicks in,and that’s why some people like motorbikes.although I don’t have the bottle to ride one,,but can understand the rush they must feel at high speed.”

In the 80s I did a couple of Formula Ford races. I would love to have done more but simply couldn’t afford it. I knew the risks and considered them seriously before I even went to racing school but the idea that the risk added anything to any of my experiences in a racing car couldn’t be further from the truth. At no time in the car did I ever feel a thrill from risk even though I had one or two spectacular incidents between test days and race meetings. At all time your brain is working out how to control the car and how to gain an advantage. Even spinning the car at close to 100mph the only thing going through my brain was how to sort it and to try not to hit anything too hard. The risk was entirely irrelevant because while I was in the car it did not exist. I don’t believe any racing driver at any level gets any kind of thrill from coming close to an accident.

And maybe my memory is bad,but I don’t remember saying pasting quotes was good..and I can’t be bothered to go back on my posts.But if you can’t beat them,join them

“I have met people who go to races just to see the crashes and you can see the sheer delight in their eyes when they tell you of some big crash they have seen”

Roy …you gotta change the company you mix with,I can’t believe that for one moment,there’s far too few accidents in F1 these day’s,paying the entry fee would be madness,when it costs a few quid to go and see banger racing.

To add my personal experience of the adrenalin rush,I used to work at Millbrook as a test driver,,yeah sounds great,but it wasn’t always fast flashy cars we tested,I have vivid memories of testing a road sweeper around the Belgium Pave.better than Alton Towers,I can tell you.

So most of the time it was pretty boring repeating schedules,but heck I was being paid to destroy cars..
But on occasions,the flash cars came your way,and when you had a V-MAX test,it was your lucky day,as you were flat out around the bowl.

You knew that it was one of the more dangerous tests,and the adrenalin rush was amazing,It allows you to understand these racing drivers,because you just wanted to go faster and faster.even slowing down to 100 felt like you were at walking pace.

One false move and you were brown bread,but that didn’t bother you,,because the adrenalin kicks in,and that’s why some people like motorbikes.although I don’t have the bottle to ride one,,but can understand the rush they must feel at high speed.

It’s in some people,and not so in some,F1 took some knocks because it was becoming a procession of cars following each other around the track.
I’m sure those that agree with me have their own experiences of dicing with death,,doesn’t sound good,but makes you feel alive.my appreciation goes out to all racing drivers…lucky so and so’s

Disaster back in the day meant a serious risk of injury or death. Today, as far as the driver is concerned, it’s more likely to mean a non finish and no points. Not a disaster as we used to know them, but still a disaster from the driver’s viewpoint.

Those comments about would tennis, football, chess be more exciting if there was a risk of death or injury … Too right they would! That’s why football, tennis and chess are called games. Games are fun. Games require skill. Games are what kids enjoy too. Motor racing is a sport.

I have explained it to you before and you said you understood quoting so why are you complaining about it? It may be obvious to you what comment I am answering but it is not to everyone else. People don’t want to have to read back through a stack of comments to understand the discussion.

“Your missing the point chum..
Nobody is saying that they enter a death race,but wheel to wheel combat,dicing with death overtaking on dangerous corners is what these drivers love,,that’s why they feed on the adrenalin.”

I understand the point perfectly as I have been discussing it for decades. No-one with any sense gets into a car to dice with death. Racing wheel to wheel with a competitor certainly but not to risk death at every corner. They know there is a risk but do you really believe that the thing that motivates them is the risk that the next time they leave home will be the last.

Anyone who gets in a race car knows the risks and they know that there is a possibility of getting killed but no-one while they are racing is getting a thrill out of risking their life and I seriously worry about people who watch because of the risk of a driver suffering serious injury.

“How morbid do you reckon we are,that it would be a thrill to just tune in to watch F1 in the chance of some fatality.That’s the silliest thing you’ve said to date.”

I have met people who go to races just to see the crashes and you can see the sheer delight in their eyes when they tell you of some big crash they have seen.

Sorry Hugo.
Every time Stirling opens his mouth he is a disaster.

Thanks in advance.

Copying and pasting,,It’s great isn’t it…..Now how do you like it!!!

Your missing the point chum..
Nobody is saying that they enter a death race,but wheel to wheel combat,dicing with death overtaking on dangerous corners is what these drivers love,,that’s why they feed on the adrenalin.

Off course nobody wants serious injury or death,and fortunately it is a rarity these day’s,but It is a risk that all driver’s are fully aware of.

How morbid do you reckon we are,that it would be a thrill to just tune in to watch F1 in the chance of some fatality.That’s the silliest thing you’ve said to date.

One example was my hero being overtaken on the outside of a bend at breakneck speed by Alonso,,,Brilliant!.we all knew the risk,and so did Alonso.

Alonso wouldn’t have been world champion twice not affording such driving

So you think we gained more by Senna dying that we would if had had the opportunity to watch him tackle Schumacher?

Surely it is the thrill of watching a driver control a car on the limit of control that makes the sport worth watching. I enjoy it more knowing the driver is likely to walk away from any accident than I did when the driver was likely to become paralysed or die.

Moss has a very old attitude to the sport and has always talked about how great it is that there is risk. I agree with Jackie Stewart that it is wrong that the sport should see drivers dying as an integral part of racing as it did before he started his campaign. As I said in my earlier comment I would far rather had the opportunity to watch all the great drivers I have seen die race for several more years than watch them die. Unfortunately too many of the younger viewers have never seen someone die horribly in a racing accident and have a ridiculously romantic notion of what it means.

Would football be more interesting if David Beckham risked dying from a bad tackle? Would tennis be more interesting if Andy Murray could die from being hit by the ball? Would chess be more interesting if the players risked death if they lost too many pieces? Of course not so why can’t people appreciate what a driver is doing with a car rather than look for a cheap thrill of him possibly dying?

It’s almost as if you miss me….thanks guy’s..i’m touched..

Well just to clarify my point,as my crass style or sense of humour seems to make me out as some horror character…
Off course I don’t enjoy seeing sportspeople die,,I merely suggested that as with many occupations,there is a certain degree of danger involved,even driving down the road has it’s risks.

I also suggest that all drivers in all platforms of motor racing are guilty of driving to extremes.Touring cars would be a bit boring otherwise,,

As for the cheating…well we’ve been over that..If we are to believe he is a cheat,,,then let the media proclaim his titles void.

AND PLEASE STOP COPYING MY QUOTES..

That makes about as much sense as Mosley saying how much better racing would be were it quieter!

Here’s a quote from Stirling Moss: “To achieve anything in this game, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”

It’s the thrill of watching drivers dabbling on that boundary that does it for me! Even if, thankfully, disaster doesn’t mean the same today as it did in Stirling’s day.

The fact — and this hardly applies just to F1 — is that people who go closer than the others to that boundary of disaster and survive become the immortals, be they warriors, explorers, scientists or artists.

Never done that. I only respond when I find a comment on the few sites I visit.

“As for the hard racing tactics,bring it on….ok so your a safe head…but F1 has been lacking the old days of exciting duels..
Firemen,Police and Servicemen risk their lives every day for a wage.”

If you think the excitement in F1 is people dying then you don’t understand what you are watching. Maybe we should go back to the 1930s and have tracks with no protection round them, marshals with no training or safety equipment, ludicrously unsafe car designs and great drivers dying before their time.

Personally I would have prefered Ascari, Clark, Rindt, Peterson, Villeneuve etc to have lived longer and provided even more entertainment on the track but I am sure there are people like you around who get more enjoyment out of watching them die than watching them drive.

Drivers are not paid because of the risk they are paid because of their performance just as other professional sportsmen are. The risk does not add to the sport in any way as far as I am concerned.

Like almost everyone else, I was also a bit startled to hear Max Mosleys views on engine noise. Yet, when you think about it becomes quite logic.
When Max made a reference to people, I suspect he meant the corporate guests, VIPs & celebrities that he surrounded himself with when visiting the pits or strolled down the grid. The kind of people generally ignorant of motor racing, very likely to make comments such as “-Is it always this noisy?” or “- What? There aren’t any silencers on these cars?” etc.

Wich reminds me of an anecdote from, I believe, the Hungarian GP 20 years ago.
At the qualifying press conference, Derek Warwick at the time driving for Arrows, described how he was suffering from brakes problems and thus unable to brake late enough to post a quick time.
An american lady went on to ask him “- Couldn’t you use the handbrake (parking brake) then?”
Apparently even the affable Warwick short of an answer then!

When Mr Schumacher was driving for the FIA SORRY i mean the Scuderia

Button may be perceived – possibly rightly so – as a ‘lightweight’ in relation to HAM, ALO and VET but the new rule changes play to his strengths (smooth style, kinder on tyres, preference for under-steering car (i.e less-’pointy’-front-end / heavier back end) so to discount him is pure sillyness.

Button’s margin over Barrichello in 2009 was similar to Schumacher’s margin over Barrichello in 2003, but in Button’s case, he actually had to fight Barrichello (who took points and a win at Monza off him) in the championship.

Regardless, it’s silly to totally discount Button. I’m hardly a fan and think Lewis is faster…but that’s why they run the races.

When was the last time they handed out the championship trophies before the season even started?

And if that KUBYASHI….however you spell his name..has the car under him..I reckon he will be a storm this season.

He is my 2nd pick of the season followed by Massa

It’s one thing to not like Schumacher, but to imagine a lightweight like Button is superior really does demonstrate a frightful lack of understanding of this sport.

I’m tempted to suggest you get off your high horse and use your intellect, but frankly it’s more amusing for you to stay on it. The rest of us get a laugh that way.