Comments on: Should F1 be a drag race? http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/ The original motor racing magazine Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:05:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Clive http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-55736 Clive Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:37:10 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-55736 Manual gears and 3 pedals. Manual gears and 3 pedals.

]]> By: Russell Unitt http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-51203 Russell Unitt Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:04:54 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-51203 For those who talk about this being an artificial solution and 'too much passing being worse than not enough' , as if it were some sort of (distasteful) American solution. Well I would like you to pause to consider one of the most famous of F-1 races; the 1971 Italian GP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY_sHKRnaeo - a race that was decided only after a feast of slipstreaming and constant overtaking, a race that Peter Gethin only won in the last 50 metres and the first 5 cars finished within 0.61 of a second! For those who talk about this being an artificial solution and ‘too much passing being worse than not enough’ , as if it were some sort of (distasteful) American solution.

Well I would like you to pause to consider one of the most famous of F-1 races; the 1971 Italian GP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY_sHKRnaeo – a race that was decided only after a feast of slipstreaming and constant overtaking, a race that Peter Gethin only won in the last 50 metres and the first 5 cars finished within 0.61 of a second!

]]> By: mike http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50760 mike Fri, 02 Apr 2010 06:48:05 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50760 I've thought for years that using ground effect tunnels (standardised for Max's approval), and using the wings for tuning the cars setup, would be the best way to enable overtaking in F1. But since the whip cracking former pres of the FIA decided a spec series was a better idea, it probably won't happen. On a related subject, why the restrictions on the number of engines and tyres? Use as many as you want! The unit costs are low compared to the R&D costs, and since the R&D has been Max'ed, the cost is much less. More engines, more tyres mean more laps in practice, more time for young drivers, and a better spectacle for the fans. I’ve thought for years that using ground effect tunnels (standardised for Max’s approval), and using the wings for tuning the cars setup, would be the best way to enable overtaking in F1.
But since the whip cracking former pres of the FIA decided a spec series was a better idea, it probably won’t happen.
On a related subject, why the restrictions on the number of engines and tyres? Use as many as you want! The unit costs are low compared to the R&D costs, and since the R&D has been Max’ed, the cost is much less.
More engines, more tyres mean more laps in practice, more time for young drivers, and a better spectacle for the fans.

]]> By: P Kenny http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50744 P Kenny Thu, 01 Apr 2010 21:31:29 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50744 Must remember that the device was only used on superspeedways. If I remember correctly these cars had to get their wings to create lift such was the downforce created by the underbody. Poignant photo at the beginning of the article. I believe that it is from 31 October 1999 and we can see the unfortunate Greg Moore at the top of the track. Sadly we all know what happened on the next lap. Must remember that the device was only used on superspeedways. If I remember correctly these cars had to get their wings to create lift such was the downforce created by the underbody.

Poignant photo at the beginning of the article. I believe that it is from 31 October 1999 and we can see the unfortunate Greg Moore at the top of the track. Sadly we all know what happened on the next lap.

]]> By: Greg Webb http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50686 Greg Webb Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:10:40 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50686 The racing produced by the Handford Wing was perhaps a touch artificial, but that was exaverbated by ovals on which F1 doesn't run and the principle was very strong. A suitably tuned version with proper ground effect cars could produce radically stronger racing. The racing produced by the Handford Wing was perhaps a touch artificial, but that was exaverbated by ovals on which F1 doesn’t run and the principle was very strong. A suitably tuned version with proper ground effect cars could produce radically stronger racing.

]]> By: Ollie Emmet http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50651 Ollie Emmet Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:37:56 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50651 sounds like a good idea,so no doubt it will not be used in f1! Bernie would rather put in place his silly short caut plan instead!! sounds like a good idea,so no doubt it will not be used in f1!

Bernie would rather put in place his silly short caut plan instead!!

]]> By: Berni http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50639 Berni Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:12:51 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50639 change the clock chaps! change the clock chaps!

]]> By: Berni http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50638 Berni Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:10:49 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50638 Better to draw the winner from the hat and have the race decided in the run down to the finish line. Rather than know the result Saturday afternoon. F1 Motor racing please. Better to draw the winner from the hat and have the race decided in the run down to the finish line. Rather than know the result Saturday afternoon. F1 Motor racing please.

]]> By: john read http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50634 john read Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:27:30 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50634 I agree with Steve. Too much passing is worse than not enough. The last laps of the Daytona 500 were ridiculous. They may as well draw the winner from a hat. I agree with Steve. Too much passing is worse than not enough. The last laps of the Daytona 500 were ridiculous. They may as well draw the winner from a hat.

]]> By: Steve Wyant http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50633 Steve Wyant Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:13:44 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50633 I think F1 sure needs to do something, but I recall that the Handford Device produced racing (passing) that was just a bit too artificial for me. It was almost as if the following car had no choice but to pass. So, maybe a similar device, but not with quite the same dramatic effect could work? I think F1 sure needs to do something, but I recall that the Handford Device produced racing (passing) that was just a bit too artificial for me. It was almost as if the following car had no choice but to pass. So, maybe a similar device, but not with quite the same dramatic effect could work?

]]> By: Kevin Woeller http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50626 Kevin Woeller Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:45:48 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50626 I wonder what Smokey Yunick would think of all this? I wonder what Smokey Yunick would think of all this?

]]> By: Steven Roy http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50613 Steven Roy Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:49:11 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50613 The answer to F1's problems have been obvious for 30 years but the people in power just won't tackle them. We have a new formula due in 2013 and we need a campaing to get cars that can overtake. This is not the first post on the subject to appear here as Nigel Roebuck answered a question quoting Patrick Head http://bit.ly/csudQ2 . I hope these two are linked and Motor Sport is planning a campaign to get rid of wings and get back to downforce generated by the underbody. What we need is high drag cars and no front wings that lose downforce following another car. This is no a new problem and as I mentioned in my comment on the other post Gilles Villeneuve wanted to get id of front wings in the early 80s because they were ruining races. The answer to F1′s problems have been obvious for 30 years but the people in power just won’t tackle them. We have a new formula due in 2013 and we need a campaing to get cars that can overtake. This is not the first post on the subject to appear here as Nigel Roebuck answered a question quoting Patrick Head http://bit.ly/csudQ2 .

I hope these two are linked and Motor Sport is planning a campaign to get rid of wings and get back to downforce generated by the underbody. What we need is high drag cars and no front wings that lose downforce following another car.

This is no a new problem and as I mentioned in my comment on the other post Gilles Villeneuve wanted to get id of front wings in the early 80s because they were ruining races.

]]> By: David Fisher http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50588 David Fisher Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:40:01 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50588 I knew that somebody had the answer aerodynamically. I low pressure area behind the leading car allowing proper slipstreaming. To echo the first correspondent, What are we waiting for? I knew that somebody had the answer aerodynamically. I low pressure area behind the leading car allowing proper slipstreaming. To echo the first correspondent, What are we waiting for?

]]> By: David S http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50573 David S Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:13:30 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50573 I've also been wondering why the Handford wing hasn't been considered for a long time now. Modern F1 cars produce noticably less of a slipstream and cars only seem to pick it up a couple of car-lengths behind rather than 10 lengths of the cars in the 80s. It seems to me that the obvious way for the FIA to control speeds is to have control front/rear wings in preset low, medium and high downforce settings. They could easily incorporate aerodynamic concepts like the Handford wing and free up other aspects of development safe in the knowledge that they have a big hammer with which to hit increasing speeds. Everyone cries that control parts are bad for F1, but if it's done in exchange for more freedom elsewhere I don't see the problem. We had 14 years of standard refuelling rigs and now we have a standard ecu, so control parts are hardly a new concept. I’ve also been wondering why the Handford wing hasn’t been considered for a long time now.

Modern F1 cars produce noticably less of a slipstream and cars only seem to pick it up a couple of car-lengths behind rather than 10 lengths of the cars in the 80s.

It seems to me that the obvious way for the FIA to control speeds is to have control front/rear wings in preset low, medium and high downforce settings.

They could easily incorporate aerodynamic concepts like the Handford wing and free up other aspects of development safe in the knowledge that they have a big hammer with which to hit increasing speeds.

Everyone cries that control parts are bad for F1, but if it’s done in exchange for more freedom elsewhere I don’t see the problem. We had 14 years of standard refuelling rigs and now we have a standard ecu, so control parts are hardly a new concept.

]]> By: Nathan http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50566 Nathan Tue, 30 Mar 2010 06:32:39 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50566 not only that, but look at the front wings those Champcars had! as they didnt create much downforce either (they r also the 1st part of the car to be effected by turbulance and create the most downforce on the car), they hit the turbulance of the car in front but there no massive loss of downforce being lost! F1 had passing in the 80's and look at the front wings they had then....... anyone see a pattern forming here? not only that, but look at the front wings those Champcars had! as they didnt create much downforce either (they r also the 1st part of the car to be effected by turbulance and create the most downforce on the car), they hit the turbulance of the car in front but there no massive loss of downforce being lost!
F1 had passing in the 80′s and look at the front wings they had then……. anyone see a pattern forming here?

]]> By: Kevin Woeller http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50542 Kevin Woeller Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:44:28 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50542 I spectated that race at MIS in 1998 and I do not recall using my seat that day! It was the most thrilling, to watch a car draft and perform the classic slingshot pass!! I spectated that race at MIS in 1998 and I do not recall using my seat that day! It was the most thrilling, to watch a car draft and perform the classic slingshot pass!!

]]> By: Santiago Fernández http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50518 Santiago Fernández Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:23:43 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50518 I must confess I was a bit off put by the title, but the article makes a great point, tough it points to something consistent with Mr. Kirby's previous article: underbody generated downforce is the way to go and all wings do is give a chance to ruin the show. The idea of the OWG is pretty solid (get toghether the chief technical minds of the sport and make them think about ways to improve the show) but somewhere along the process something went wrong, because it wasn't cheap and didn't deliver the required results. Let's hope next season without the double diffuser things get better. I must confess I was a bit off put by the title, but the article makes a great point, tough it points to something consistent with Mr. Kirby’s previous article: underbody generated downforce is the way to go and all wings do is give a chance to ruin the show.

The idea of the OWG is pretty solid (get toghether the chief technical minds of the sport and make them think about ways to improve the show) but somewhere along the process something went wrong, because it wasn’t cheap and didn’t deliver the required results. Let’s hope next season without the double diffuser things get better.

]]> By: Bob Geoghegan http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50504 Bob Geoghegan Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:43:57 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50504 "Not Invented Here" didn't do much good for General Motors... I don't know if the Handford 'wing' would help F1, but it's got points against it because of its origin. “Not Invented Here” didn’t do much good for General Motors… I don’t know if the Handford ‘wing’ would help F1, but it’s got points against it because of its origin.

]]> By: Grabyrdy http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/indycar/should-f1-be-a-drag-race/comment-page-1/#comment-50502 Grabyrdy Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:39:04 +0000 http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/?p=8380#comment-50502 What are we waiting for, then ? What are we waiting for, then ?

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